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Revitalising pvp in all brackets(2s/3s/soloqueue)
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Amnezx

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Post Posted: 21-10-2017, 14:58:09 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

I`m writing this post hoping one of the head gms will do something to revitalise pvp, since it`s kinda dead atm(we can barely see 1-2 teams @2s at peak hours).
SO let`s start. First i suggest to bring back the goodies vendors(yes, vendors). First the rewards should start at a lower rate, to reward the casual players too.

1. The first vendor should be with pvp mounts like it was on mop realm (you can use the tbc, wotlk, cataclysm and mop, since you said you won`t use those as pvp seasons) one more it would be a great idea to start from some low rate like ~16-700 to reward the casual players too, since we have plenty of mounts to chose (from swift nether drake - tbc season 1 to prideful mount - mop season 15)

2. The second vendor should contain legacy pvp elite gear + weapons and tabards, since all players love transmog. You can keep 1 tabard rewarding the rank 1 pvp team for the future pvp events. With the elite sets we should start with cataclysm (vicious, ruthless, cataclysmic), mop (malevo->prideful) and wod(prima->warmongering). And the tabards should start from wotlk(Furious, relentless, wrathful), mop and wod. Again, if you want to keep 1-2-3 tabards for rewarding rank 1 players, go on. If you need help, i can give myself a hand in finding all the item ids needed.

Moreover you should bring back the 3v3, soloqueue and i propose 2v2 vote points quests. 20/30 wins for each bracket for 10/15 vote points per quest. i think it`s not a big deal, 30-45 vote points/week.

The vote points quests were a great succes back when they were first implemented @mop realm. So i think bringing them back on the legion realm will make pvp move a little upwards.

Any new suggestions would be appreciated.

Edit: I saw that skirmish 2v2 is very populated, so i think if we can reward those players to play 2s/3s those brackets will be populated too.
Edit 2: I think you should script the 2s and 3s loot boxes after each win (as it is on blizzard) as you can see it here
Edit 3: Also, as there are several events (weekly, for example this with skirmish increased honor), is it possible to make the same for 2s/3s ?
Edit 4: could we get the arena spectate fixed? (it just doesn`t show all the active matches)
Also, i think it would be nice that we should make a 3v3 tournament just to show them that you care about pvp and to show how pvp works here.


Tikky wrote:
I agree that there should be custom quests added to the game but in my opinion the most important thing is the fact that if you are trying to see the situation from the perspective of a casual player there's no reason to play pvp in terms of progression.The gear you get at low rating is way worse than the pve gear that can be obtained WAY easier and you will also get 0 rewards at the end of a season.On retail people start getting titles from very low rating(1550-1600 is challenger level from what i've seen) but here on freakz as a casual player you definetly won't get any titles/mounts/tabards since very few are given out so there is no motivation to do pvp for these players which lets be honest is the majority of the playerbase.



regarding Tikky's words. We should reward casual players with titles too, as blizzard does. These are the legion season 5 title cutoffs from blizzard https://imgur.com/a/qbjD8, as you can see challenger begins at 1588 rate, which is prety low. Implementing a wider range of titles will make casual players queuing into 2s/3s. What i`m trying to say is that we should modify the current rewards system, make duelist, rival and challenger titles only last a season and cut the ladder other way that is now.
For example:
Rank 1 titles 1-3 (or 1-6, depending on popularity)
Gladiator title 4-6 or 4-9
Duelist title 10-16 or 10-20
Rival Title 21-30 or 21-36/40
Duelist title 31-50

Something just like this. It doesn`t have to be the same, but more titles -> more people will queue, because players want to be rewarded. Casuals won`t queue if they know they don`t have a chance at a title/sth else. Right now Duelist/rival/challenger titles on freakz just feels like ~gladiator on blizz, why? because they don't fulfill the basic purupose of those titles, which is rewarding the casuals, and making pvp a progressive grinding. Let's say that John it`s a basic player, he gets challenger this season, the next season John had enough experience from the prievous season, and will try to push the ladder for rival, and so on. Just give this project a try, just one or two seasons.[/url]





Last edited by Amnezx on 02-11-2017, 12:35:11; edited 4 times in total
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saturnfever

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Post Posted: 21-10-2017, 20:48:12 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

I was just thinking of this about a week ago. The 3v3 soloq was very populated during that time, when that quest was up. It was very fruitful, but since the importance of forum reputation has changed, it can no longer be put in the game as a reward, as now vote points benefit the entier forum, not just the WoW department. The 3v3 soloq is not looking so good and the 3v3 premade is not good either. That quest was, I believe, the reason why everything changed. After it was removed everything changed in the PvP arena scene. I doubt it will get reinstated and I don't see a viable alternative to make the people want to join the arena.


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Amnezx

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Post Posted: 21-10-2017, 20:52:19 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

saturnfever wrote:
I was just thinking of this about a week ago. The 3v3 soloq was very populated during that time, when that quest was up. It was very fruitful, but since the importance of forum reputation has changed, it can no longer be put in the game as a reward, as now vote points benefit the entier forum, not just the WoW department. The 3v3 soloq is not looking so good and the 3v3 premade is not good either. That quest was, I believe, the reason why everything changed. After it was removed everything changed in the PvP arena scene. I doubt it will get reinstated and I don't see a viable alternative to make the people want to join the arena.


well, we have to think about a reward better than gold, since gold values almost 0 in legion if vote points isnt a thing, or we can just remove the vopte pts->reputation transfer. the queues are lower, and lower. i sat like ~10 mins for a 2v2 queue, which is sad. i`m looknig further for more replies from staff. Thanks anyway!



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Tikky

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Post Posted: 21-10-2017, 23:02:29 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

I agree that there should be custom quests added to the game but in my opinion the most important thing is the fact that if you are trying to see the situation from the perspective of a casual player there's no reason to play pvp in terms of progression.The gear you get at low rating is way worse than the pve gear that can be obtained WAY easier and you will also get 0 rewards at the end of a season.On retail people start getting titles from very low rating(1550-1600 is challenger level from what i've seen) but here on freakz as a casual player you definetly won't get any titles/mounts/tabards since very few are given out so there is no motivation to do pvp for these players which lets be honest is the majority of the playerbase.
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Post Posted: 21-10-2017, 23:07:14 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

remove the vp->forum rep or change so it will require more vp if that is a problem, but i think that vp will motivation is one of the best.Back when this quest was up there were more ppl and you could get a in a game daily.
The elite pvp gear is nice too, because who doesn't like more xmogs


https://www.freakz.ro/forum/achievement-Unique-a176.html
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1007

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Post Posted: 22-10-2017, 01:33:20 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Arena on freakz definitely should be more(way more) rewarding, especially for casual players... let them chose what they want more; VP, gear, or cosmetics...

Also i'd suggest creating rated solo 2v2 bracket where only dps specs can join, i know a lot of players that would appreciate this.

And last thing, 1v1 skirmish that can award at least some honor or ap points.



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Ozzydany

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Post Posted: 22-10-2017, 03:52:41 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

We are talking just about reward systems , player's don't see to much motivation now on tittles , maybe more competition might be the motivation we need.
We can try to revitalize the pvp by making the old event guild vs guild battlegrounds .
If you ask why battlegrounds , think about the time used for preparation from the pve guilds , they dont have honor talents , they dont really know to much about pvp atm , they just know is dead , after the announcement pop-up , they will que for arenas/bgs etc.. to learn more things , to explore more of the game and maybe more of them will keep playing pvp after the event is done .
The thing is , we already have the players on the server , they just need to see how scripted the pvp is to keep playing , we already had a pve competition and they prepared for this from the beginning of the realm involuntary , give them some time to prepare for this event to see if we can wake up some pvp player's that don't know what the server can offer right now on pvp side.
And yeah why not , give rewards to the winners , is an extra motivation . I dont think 4 k players will ignore an event made by GMs .
Also with 33 active guilds , at least some of them will want to flex how good they are on this event .

We can give it a try , it's not a risk , if we dont have enough guilds that want to participate we can cancel the event .
I dont see to much population on pvp side of the server right now , and it's a shame after all those fixes .



I'm talking about this
https://www.freakz.ro/forum/PvP-Event-Battlegrounds-between-Guilds-4th-Edition-t418699.html
https://www.freakz.ro/forum/PvP-Event-Battlegrounds-between-Guilds-v2-Games-t330750.html
https://www.freakz.ro/forum/PvP-Event-Battlegrounds-between-Guilds-v2-t310101-15.html
https://www.freakz.ro/forum/Genesis-Guild-Wars-10v10-t69358.html

Or 3s competitions with a public chat announce of the participants(or the name of the teams) with 2/3 wins to get further , the losing team choose the map to get a chance etc...

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Amnezx

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Post Posted: 22-10-2017, 10:12:51 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Ozzydany wrote:
We are talking just about reward systems , player's don't see to much motivation now on tittles , maybe more competition might be the motivation we need.
We can try to revitalize the pvp by making the old event guild vs guild battlegrounds .
If you ask why battlegrounds , think about the time used for preparation from the pve guilds , they dont have honor talents , they dont really know to much about pvp atm , they just know is dead , after the announcement pop-up , they will que for arenas/bgs etc.. to learn more things , to explore more of the game and maybe more of them will keep playing pvp after the event is done .
The thing is , we already have the players on the server , they just need to see how scripted the pvp is to keep playing , we already had a pve competition and they prepared for this from the beginning of the realm involuntary , give them some time to prepare for this event to see if we can wake up some pvp player's that don't know what the server can offer right now on pvp side.
And yeah why not , give rewards to the winners , is an extra motivation . I dont think 4 k players will ignore an event made by GMs .
Also with 33 active guilds , at least some of them will want to flex how good they are on this event .

We can give it a try , it's not a risk , if we dont have enough guilds that want to participate we can cancel the event .
I dont see to much population on pvp side of the server right now , and it's a shame after all those fixes .



I'm talking about this
https://www.freakz.ro/forum/PvP-Event-Battlegrounds-between-Guilds-4th-Edition-t418699.html
https://www.freakz.ro/forum/PvP-Event-Battlegrounds-between-Guilds-v2-Games-t330750.html
https://www.freakz.ro/forum/PvP-Event-Battlegrounds-between-Guilds-v2-t310101-15.html
https://www.freakz.ro/forum/Genesis-Guild-Wars-10v10-t69358.html

Or 3s competitions with a public chat announce of the participants(or the name of the teams) with 2/3 wins to get further , the losing team choose the map to get a chance etc...


Actually you have a point. I hvent seen amy 3s events in a while, nor guild v guild. +1



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raven3

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Post Posted: 22-10-2017, 11:21:31 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Boosting arena participation is a tough thing.
People like to play for something and they want to have a chance of winning.
That's why battleground activity is kinda high. Players want to unlock the pvp honor talents and want to upgrade their prestige badge. They have a goal.

With 2v2 you can't do much. It should be a fun/play with friends bracket.

Regarding 3v3 I think the stimulant should be titles.
You need to have a clear goal there too.
Right now only skill is rewarded with only 16 players getting a title at the end of the season.
So a casual player would look at the 3v3 ladder and think :
"Why should I queue? I have no chance at getting in the top 16 and if I queue now there is a very high chance of being sniped by a top 16 team with a carefully selected comp that would destroy me and my team"

But on retail not only skill is rewarded but also participation.
So 35% of all players above 1k rate get challenger . In the vindictive season, players at 1700 rate got challenger on retail.

I think this should be implemented here.
If you actually know that you have a real change at a title you would queue.

So change the 3v3 title distribution so that everyone knows.
35% of all characters above 1k rate should get Challenger
10% of all characters above 1k rate should get Rival
3% of all characters above 1k rate should get Duelist
and then like it is now 3 should get Gladiator and 3 Rank 1.

But then you would have to wipe all titles with the exception of Gladiator and rank 1 like this.
Season 1 finishes and people get their titles.
At the end of season 2 the s1 titles with the excetion of gladiator and rank 1 are wiped and after that the S2 titles are distributed.
and so on.
This would mentain the interest in the bracket.



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Amnezx

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Post Posted: 22-10-2017, 11:44:26 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

@jade, i thin that 1-3 rank 1 and 4-9 gladiator makes more sense, since the duelist,rigal,challenger titles will lose its actual value. We have to rethink the whole reward system. Still waiting for approval from staff


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saturnfever

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Post Posted: 22-10-2017, 12:34:33 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Amnezx wrote:
@jade, i thin that 1-3 rank 1 and 4-9 gladiator makes more sense, since the duelist,rigal,challenger titles will lose its actual value. We have to rethink the whole reward system. Still waiting for approval from staff


But the only reason why those titles got so much value was because only a few people got them, which shouldn't have been the case. As Jade has said, a larger percentage of the participants should have gotten those titles, not just top 9 players.
I don't know how accurate this site is, but it would make sense that a larger playerbase would have these achievements and titles, as this site shows: Challenger completed by 14% of all accounts, and Rival completed by 5% of all accounts, so that means 1 out of 7 people have Challenger, and 1 out of 20 have Rival.


I also understand that there is a lack of players and competition, but maybe that's why. These titles have been put on a pedestal, making them impossible to acquire, because of what Jade said, and everyone knows, and that is the fact that the arena is just a place where the hardcore players are, and no room for casual players. Imagine if that was every single battleground, the same way the arenas are right now. If you just joined bg after bg and each time you played against a premade group that would stomp you. That would make battlegrounds unplayable too. Why should arenas be disregarded? They are still a fun part of the game, that a lot of people would want to enjoy.

Also, I know that the rating system is blizzlike, but that was another turn point for the arena scene. When the rating system was changed at the middle of MOP, that was another turning point for arenas, especially because people get frustrated when they have to win 10 games at high rating, and then they all lose that rating that they got with just 1 loss, besides that quest and the fact that just a handful of people were stomping everything.

I feel there are a lot of missed opportunities in this area.



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Post Posted: 22-10-2017, 17:32:09 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/achievements/achievement-category-165
this is interesting.. more people have the challenger achieve on retail than they have Just the Two of Us: 1750.

But keep in mind.
On retail every title apart from Rank 1 gets removed after each season.
And you have to get rating in the upcoming season to keep it.

Like you get rival in S1 .
Then you have the title for as long as S2 lasts.
At the end of S2 your title is removed. And if you have rating you get rival or a new title based on your rating.




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Amnezx

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Post Posted: 22-10-2017, 17:46:28 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

raven3 wrote:
http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/achievements/achievement-category-165
this is interesting.. more people have the challenger achieve on retail than they have Just the Two of Us: 1750.

But keep in mind.
On retail every title apart from Rank 1 gets removed after each season.
And you have to get rating in the upcoming season to keep it.

Like you get rival in S1 .
Then you have the title for as long as S2 lasts.
At the end of S2 your title is removed. And if you have rating you get rival or a new title based on your rating.



That s right, we should rmove all the duelist, rival, challenger titles, and make only gladiator and rank 1 permanent. I suggest keeping both r1 and glad because those titles are relevant(only top 9/12 pr w/e number of players) will have them per season



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1007

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Post Posted: 23-10-2017, 19:16:15 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

I doubt new titles system can change anything... I see titles as an addition, not a big motivation.

To attract people, arena should have diversity and worthy rewards.

The problem is players don't have much of a choice when joining standard arena, all are stuck looking for healers at 2v2, and nothing new at normal 3v3... solo 3v3 is great but healers don't like to play with random dps, they rarely join and quit after few loses.

Like I said before, the solution I see is add better rewards and: Let those who enjoy healer comps play in standard arena, and for those that are sick of healers play in solo 2v2/3v3 vs other dps. (Also 1v1 skirmish would be great for practice) Is this hard to realise?
Im sure solo dps arena will be more populated than standard arena.



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Magicqtz

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Post Posted: 24-10-2017, 10:51:31 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

1007 wrote:
I doubt new titles system can change anything... I see titles as an addition, not a big motivation.

To attract people, arena should have diversity and worthy rewards.

The problem is players don't have much of a choice when joining standard arena, all are stuck looking for healers at 2v2, and nothing new at normal 3v3... solo 3v3 is great but healers don't like to play with random dps, they rarely join and quit after few loses.

Like I said before, the solution I see is add better rewards and: Let those who enjoy healer comps play in standard arena, and for those that are sick of healers play in solo 2v2/3v3 vs other dps. (Also 1v1 skirmish would be great for practice) Is this hard to realise?
Im sure solo dps arena will be more populated than standard arena.


1v1 skirmish is not for practice, you will not learn anything, only the other classes spells and mechanic (only for dps).
To learn pvp, you need to do at least 2v2, to know the synergy of that comp, the def and burst cd's timer, to counter it. I know that popular comps are with healer now, but this is the fact, 2v2 is no more a competitive bracket, bcs of that, also on blizz.

The new reward system suggested here is good.
Soloq for 2v2 or 1v1 is too custom, there is nothing competitive here.


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