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[FIXED] [Death Knight] [Unholy] Tak'theritrix's Shoulderpads and Dark Arbiter interaction
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CyberKing

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Post Posted: 31-03-2019, 22:27:06 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

WoW Freakz spell link: https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=207349&&name=dark-arbiter
Bug description: Well as the title suggests the problem is when you combine these 2 spells/items together. Here on Freakz Tak'theritrix's just adds 40% dmg on DA, if you have lets say 100% base dmg on Arbiter and you cast 10 Death Coils (each gives 45% dmg increase) which is 450% and you add it on base it becomes 550% activating shoulders just adds extra 40% making it 590%. This all sounds logical and normal but when you compare to Retail these numbers just dont work.

Let us take this https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bjQnzhD3mNWLZCKT#fight=3&&type=damage-done&&source=20 guy for an example. He had 13 casts of Death Coil in burst. His highest hit was +3.6mil (the crit was +7.2mil so u divide it by 2 and you get +3.6mil) And so i went ahead and tried to get roughly his DA dmg without any DMG modifiers. Lets take his 2nd cast of DA where you can see that he has all the buffs so you know that it will be the same base DMG for the end of the 1st cast because there he has all those buffs aswell. So looking at it, the minimum hit on start of that 2nd cast is 630k and this was when he had 1 Death Coil cast which is 45% DMG inc. So when I remove that 45% I get around 434k. And then lets try to increase this with Death Coil % and Tak'theritix's. On Freakz its going to be 434k x (585%+40%)= 434k x 6.25= 2.7mil which is nowhere near his highest hit. And then what I think should be happening is that shoulders are multiplicative instead of additive. If I take that 585% x 1.4 I get 819% + 40%(from base) I get 859%. 434k x 8.59 = 3.728mil which is almost perfect, a bit over it but compared to the previous result its nowhere near 900k vs 100k difference.
I have made these calculations on several other people from the Logs aswell and the multiplicative way is always around those values while the additive is never near.
The only mistake here I could have made was that he got 2 Death Coils instead of 1. Which is 90% instead of 45%.

Or the problem could be somewhere at the start I guess? https://imgur.com/a/EveOR7J my recount from Freakz where I Use DA and throw 1 DC 505979 highest hit which is around 350k base. And I have the same mastery as that guy a bit more actually the only difference in my test was that i had 2k STR less (had potion, Unholy Strength and Concordance also)

Proof: This is all I could find about the Shoulders are they Multiplicative or Additive and also https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/21911-unholy-death-knight-73/page/18/
A guy on there, around the middle of the page asks the same Question and he gets the next reply:"You'll need to test this manually, tbh. It's not released anywhere as actual information, so we're a bit screwed on that front. You can test it with DA as an additive/multiplicative test. The shoulders are BiS only for DA, not for any other build, so that's worth keeping in mind".
Thanks for reading hope you find out what the problem is. Thank you.

TLDR: Shoulders should increase the Total DMG of the DA, meaning both base and the DC increase.


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Last edited by CyberKing on 02-04-2019, 12:49:21; edited 1 time in total
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Nightraider

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      Battletag: postrow.ID_BATTLE_NET}  norbi111 
Post Posted: 31-03-2019, 23:37:31 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

From what I know how it was on retail indeed it should be Multiplicative not Additive
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Mazar

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Post Posted: 01-04-2019, 05:02:38 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Yeah it should be Multiplicative and also Tak'theritrix's Shoulderpads buff should only affect Physical damage. On freakz it affects Physical, Holy, Fire, Nature, Frost, Shadow, Arcane damage. So for example Pestilance from Army of the Dead shouldnt be increased by dmg modifier.

Simc:
Name : Tak'theritrix's Command (id=215069) [Spell Family (15)]
School : Physical
Range : 100 yards
Duration : 30 seconds
Attributes : ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........
: ........ x....... ........ ........ ........ ........ ....x... ......x.
: ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........
: ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........
: ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........
: ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........
Effects :
#1 (id=319411) : Apply Aura (6) | Modify Damage Done% (79)
Base Value: 40 | Scaled Value: 40 | Misc Value: 0x7f | Target: Unknown(25)
#2 (id=319412) : Apply Aura (6) | Scale% (61)
Base Value: 15 | Scaled Value: 15 | Target: Unknown(25)
Description : $@spelldesc215068
Tooltip : All damage done increased by $s1%.

Freakz:https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=215069&&name=tak-theritrix-s-command

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CyberKing

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Post Posted: 01-04-2019, 10:14:41 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Im glad you found something but I need to specify something. It is all damage the pets deal. Because Dark Arbiter does Shadow Damage and that is increased you can see it through multiple videos on Retail so it means in the end that all DMG done by the pets is increased.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=AhRv5S_4pBU&t=142:

the guy says it buffs Arbiter so you get the raw idea.


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Mazar

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Post Posted: 01-04-2019, 17:00:19 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

I agree. My bad. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=215069/taktheritrixs-command "Apply Aura: Mod Damage Done % (Arcane, Fire, Frost, Holy, Nature, Physical, Shadow)"
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ronit16

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Post Posted: 02-04-2019, 12:29:24 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Well another thing to note is that the t20 set bonus 15%dmg buff does not apply to the pets here. Take a log from any fight and you can see that those dks cast DA only after casting apocalypse (given that they have convergence). There are many forum posts to suggest this as well, also from a design perspective, when playin DA build your most damage output is through pets idk why it should not buff them. Currently If you have 2 set then playing DA build is pointless. With defile build your most dmg output is from VP, Defile, CS and DCs which scyns much better with t20.
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Post Posted: 02-04-2019, 15:16:41 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Tl;dr

I'll provide a breakdown on how you should calculate it, but the assumption that we use additive damage increase is just wrong. You think that we handle each spell separately in the code? Please do not start such conspiracy theories, because in 1 day we'll get a hundred of reports from other players "who saw on forums that damage increase is additive, but it should be multiplicative". Rumors like this spread like wildfire and even when proven otherwise will stick around.
Apply Aura: Mod Damage Done %
Value: 40%
Affected Spell Schools: Physical, Holy, Fire, Nature, Frost, Shadow, Arcane
Targets: Any

https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=215069

That aura is multiplicative and applies to ALL such auras, end of discussion. I don't know IF there is an issue at all with DA, but 10000% sure it's not what you think, at all. As I said, i'll do a breakdown on his damage sometime later today hopefully



Last edited by Quicksand on 02-04-2019, 15:21:56; edited 2 times in total
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Plaguesynth

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Post Posted: 02-04-2019, 15:38:09 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Also for the Unholy T20 2p Should NOT affect pets dmg I already declined such a topic and provided proof,which happens to be the same video linked by CyberKing in his 2nd comment .
Spoiler:

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ronit16

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Post Posted: 02-04-2019, 17:45:31 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Its the same as versatility stat without the healing and damage taken component to it. for eg: when u pop heroism/bloodlust or any other stat enhancement buff proc before u cast DA ur stats will increases and it will affect your DA it won't show up in logs ofcourse.

I just don't understand how "15% dmg from dk" does not affect an actual spell casted by him, given 40-50% dmg should be from pets when played DA spec.
Like i said, because of this the Defile build is more viable even on single target with T20 set piece, exactly opposite from retail.



Last edited by ronit16 on 02-04-2019, 17:47:42; edited 1 time in total
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CyberKing

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Post Posted: 02-04-2019, 20:50:48 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Okay let me try to explain this. I have made a mistake in using some words, I didnt mean multiplicative in the general meaning. I meant as the 40% should affect the DC increase. Basically 10 DC-s is 450% dmg increase. Well it should affect that on top of base 100%. So basically u get 100%base DMG + (450%x1.4=630% DC DMG) + 40%(which are the shoulders that are being added on to base damage). I hope this clears out what I meant.

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CyberKing

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Post Posted: 04-04-2019, 19:11:41 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Any update from you Quicksand about what I said? Since it really doesn't seem as the Aura from the Shoulders applies to DC DMG increase, I mean it doesnt modify it at all. Even tho it should. If you dont trust me that DMG breakdown you were talking about would be a nice thing to see aswell. Thanks, would love to hear some feedback.

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Post Posted: 05-04-2019, 08:44:33 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

This is all i could find about the issue. Hope it helps.

I remain,
The lonely arcane mage.

Quote:
Legendary Recommendations:

Tak’theritrix’s Shoulderpads (Keystone): These Shoulders add a considerable amount of power to your Arbiter, and are applied to the calculation of Arbiter’s base damage. When combined with the additive damage bonuses from spending Runic Power, this bonus increases their value by the 40% mentioned, allowing you to surpass your Runic Power limitations. (The short version: Using the Shoulders makes Arbiter behave as if each point of Runic Power spent is worth 1.4% damage, instead of 1%)


Source: https://veissdrachen.wordpress.com/2017/06/29/unholy-death-knight-guide/

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CyberKing

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Post Posted: 05-04-2019, 11:09:08 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Thank you Mr. Arcanus Magus for helping me out here and its just like I stated it should add 40% DMG on base and multiply the DC increase by 40%.

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naboum

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Post Posted: 08-04-2019, 02:24:21 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

ronit16 wrote:
Its the same as versatility stat without the healing and damage taken component to it. for eg: when u pop heroism/bloodlust or any other stat enhancement buff proc before u cast DA ur stats will increases and it will affect your DA it won't show up in logs ofcourse.

I just don't understand how "15% dmg from dk" does not affect an actual spell casted by him, given 40-50% dmg should be from pets when played DA spec.
Like i said, because of this the Defile build is more viable even on single target with T20 set piece, exactly opposite from retail.



T20 2p doesn't seem to affect pets damage in retail. There are very few information about this, so I can't be sure about that.
However, when testing with simulation craft, t20 2p isn't affecting dark arbiter damage, so I guess this is the normal behaviour.



Quicksand wrote:
Tl;dr

I'll provide a breakdown on how you should calculate it, but the assumption that we use additive damage increase is just wrong. You think that we handle each spell separately in the code? Please do not start such conspiracy theories, because in 1 day we'll get a hundred of reports from other players "who saw on forums that damage increase is additive, but it should be multiplicative". Rumors like this spread like wildfire and even when proven otherwise will stick around.
Apply Aura: Mod Damage Done %
Value: 40%
Affected Spell Schools: Physical, Holy, Fire, Nature, Frost, Shadow, Arcane
Targets: Any

https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=215069

That aura is multiplicative and applies to ALL such auras, end of discussion. I don't know IF there is an issue at all with DA, but 10000% sure it's not what you think, at all. As I said, i'll do a breakdown on his damage sometime later today hopefully



Hello, do you have any update about the problem brought up by the OP ?

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Quicksand

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Post Posted: 09-04-2019, 11:15:13 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Sorry, I've been away for the past couple of days. I'll do a breakdown today
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